Lok Janshakti Party leader Ram Vilas Paswan, minister of consumer affairs, food and public distribution in the present National Democratic Alliance government, surprised everybody when he hitched his wagon to the Bharatiya Janata party in the run-up to the last Lok Sabha elections because he had quit the Vajpayee government in protest against the communal riots in Gujarat.
But Paswan also has the knack of siding with the winning team. He has been a minister in every government since VP Singh ousted the Congress and formed the National Front government in 1989. However, he had to sit it out when the United Progressive Alliance returned to power for the second time in 2009 as he and Rashtriya Janata Dal leader Lalu Prasad Yadav severed their links with the Congress. Paswan was obviously not looking forward to another stint in the opposition. So the switch to the BJP-led NDA, which eventually landed him a ministerial berth in the Narendra Modi cabinet.
Unlike the previous regimes, Paswan has kept a low profile in this government. He is not as visible and vocal as he was in earlier governments. With crucial Bihar assembly elections approaching, Paswan is in the news again after he was seen as a potential chief ministerial candidate.
In an interview with Scroll.in, an unusually cautious Paswan denied he was a contender for the chief minister’s post, rubbished stories that Prime Minister Narendra Modi was an authoritarian figure, that the BJP was pursuing a communal agenda in Bihar and that the Nitish Kumar-Lalu Prasad Yadav combine would have a smooth run in the coming polls.
You have made several statements over the past few days ruling yourself out as a chief ministerial candidate in the coming Bihar assembly polls. Why?
I have always been in national politics from the time I began my career. I have been a follower of national leaders like Babasaheb Ambedkar, Jaiprakash Narayan, [Ram Manohar] Lohia, George Fernandes. They never harboured ambitions of going into state politics. By opting for a chief minister’s post, you confine yourself to a state. Look at Mulayum Singh Yadav or Mayawati – they can never shake off the tag of a state leader, or leaders of Uttar Pradesh. Today, I am the national leader of my party. Wherever I go, I draw huge crowds. Moreover, Dalits across the country look upon me as their leader. I would not like to be limited to a state given my standing at the national level.
The NDA is not planning to project a chief ministerial candidate. Won’t it work against your alliance? On the other hand, your rival group has a strong chief ministerial candidate in Nitish Kumar.
I don’t think it is correct to say that the NDA alliance will suffer if it does not project a chief ministerial candidate. Look at last year’s elections in Maharashtra and Haryana. The BJP did not project anybody and yet chalked up handsome victories in both states. As for Nitish Kumar, it is not correct to say he’s a strong candidate. If he was so sure and confident, why would he ask Kejriwal to campaign for him? Why would he tie-up with Lalu Prasad? Why would he agree to contest only 100 seats? In fact, his alliance is going to pay a heavy prices for aligning with Lalu. It would be a big feat if he manages to win even 25 seats.
Why is there a delay in seat sharing talks with the BJP?
Formal talks on seat sharing should begin in a week’s time. On an informal level, I have been in constant touch with BJP leaders and there should be no problem about seat distribution. Of course, there is always pressure from party cadres that tickets be distributed at the earliest. It does help if all the candidates are finalised well in time. It gives them time to plan their campaign.
The delay has sent out a message that all is not well between the BJP and its partners. On the other hand, it was expected that differences between Lalu Prasad Yadav and Nitish Kumar would bog down their seat sharing talks but, surprisingly, they have managed their affairs quite smoothly.
Nitish Kumar and Lalu Prasad Yadav were compelled to announce their seat sharing arrangement. Their supporters don’t see eye to eye. Lalu’s camp does not want an alliance with Nitish and the latter’s supporters are unhappy about the tie-up with Lalu. The confrontation between the two sides was manifesting itself in damaging statements from their supporters. Nitish and Lalu had to put an end to this sniping and so they quickly decided on their seat share. In the process, the Congress has emerged as a big gainer, having got 40 seats.
But this is not the end. The real fight will begin when they start identifying the seats each party is to contest. Every candidate will want to contest from a Muslim-dominated constituency.
Doesn’t this indicate that the Muslims are wary of the BJP and will put their trust in the Lalu-Nitish-Congress combine?
But it is also true that the Muslim-Yadav consolidation is not going to take place this time. The Muslim community is getting disillusioned with the grand alliance, especially Lalu. In the recent Legislative Council election, Lalu did not give a ticket to any Muslim candidate. How else do you explain the response which Asaddudin Owaisi [President of the All India Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen] is getting at his public rallies? He has been attacking the RJD, Janata Dal (United) and the Congress for letting down the minorities but there have been no protests from the Muslim community. On the contrary, his speeches are heard with rapt attention.
Similarly, there has been a steady erosion in Lalu’s Yadav vote. This was evident in the last Lok Sabha elections when Lalu’s wife Rabri Devi and daughter Misa were defeated. Moreover, what do the Yadavs have to gain by going with Lalu? He is not even a chief ministerial candidate.
There is a view that the BJP is pursuing a communal agenda in Bihar in the run-up to the forthcoming assembly elections as polarisation helps the BJP. The incidents of communal clashes have also gone up in recent months.
If you see the history of communal violence in Bihar you will see that most clashes take place between the Yadavs and the Muslims but today they are both on the same side. Why do you think Lalu never ordered a probe into the Bhagalpur riots?
So I don’t think there will be any communal tension, and if there is , it will only show that Lalu and Nitish don’t have control over these groups. The BJP’s agenda is development. The financial package for Bihar announced by the Prime Minister is evidence that vikas [development] is the key issue in these elections as far as the NDA is concerned. Why would the BJP pursue a communal agenda and shift the focus away from development? What will it hope to gain by polarising the electorate now when there is no anger among the Muslims against the BJP?
The Prime Minister may be focussing on development but the RSS and its affiliated organisations like the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bajrang Dal are spreading the venom of communalism on the ground. The BJP always benefits from a consolidation of the Hindu vote.
I do not agree with your assessment about the RSS and other organisations like the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bajrang Dal. When you have a strong leader like Narendra Modi having a charismatic personality , everybody else becomes secondary. Modi is the only factor in the Bihar elections. He is like a paper weight.
The RSS has been reaching out to the minorities., Modi has done the same. it has been speaking about communal harmony. You must understand that once you come to power, you become Prime Minister, you have the responsibility of the entire nation. You cannot afford to ignore any group. You have to be inclusive. The People's Democratic Party-BJP government in Jammu and Kashmir is the biggest example of secularism.
There is a lot of talk about the Prime Minister’s domineering personality and that that ministers have been issued a series of dos and don’ts.
I have not faced any restrictions, nor have I been given any dos and don’ts. Our party is an ally in the NDA government and nobody has stopped me from raising any particular issue. I still talk about secularism, communal harmony, welfare of Dalits in my public meetings. There has been no change in my statements after I joined this government.
Remember when the "ghar wapsi" controversy surfaced, I openly said that we should be guided by the Constitutional provision on conversion. The BJP supported me and endorsed my stand.
Allies in the NDA government have been feeling sidelined. Many, including the Shiv Sena and Shiromani Akali Dal have complained about the BJP’s big brother attitude and it does not consult its partners.
Tension between the BJP and the Shiv Sena is simmering because the two parties contested the last assembly elections separately. The Akali Dal is running a government in Punjab, so naturally they will raise issues pertaining to their state.
All government decisions are taken after thorough discussions in the Cabinet. Everybody has the freedom to put forth his or her view point and all speak fearlessly. I have been given a free hand in running my ministry. We recently filed a lawsuit against Nestle but the Prime Minister never told me not to go ahead with it because it will scare away potential foreign investors. Certainly, we don’t want to create panic among investors but, at the same time, we also have to protect the consumer.
But there were differences on the Land Acquisition Bill.
All allies gave their views on the land bill. And don’t forget, it was the allies who ensured that the legislation was amended. As far as I am concerned, I think the amended land bill was a good legislation and should be retained. It would benefit Bihar in a big way. Today, people are forced to leave Bihar in search of employment because there are no jobs in the state. If the land bill had been passed, it would open the doors for setting up industries which would provide employment to the people of Bihar. They would no longer have to go to other states for work. But the bill was put on the back-burner after the opposition raised such a hue and cry about it.
But Paswan also has the knack of siding with the winning team. He has been a minister in every government since VP Singh ousted the Congress and formed the National Front government in 1989. However, he had to sit it out when the United Progressive Alliance returned to power for the second time in 2009 as he and Rashtriya Janata Dal leader Lalu Prasad Yadav severed their links with the Congress. Paswan was obviously not looking forward to another stint in the opposition. So the switch to the BJP-led NDA, which eventually landed him a ministerial berth in the Narendra Modi cabinet.
Unlike the previous regimes, Paswan has kept a low profile in this government. He is not as visible and vocal as he was in earlier governments. With crucial Bihar assembly elections approaching, Paswan is in the news again after he was seen as a potential chief ministerial candidate.
In an interview with Scroll.in, an unusually cautious Paswan denied he was a contender for the chief minister’s post, rubbished stories that Prime Minister Narendra Modi was an authoritarian figure, that the BJP was pursuing a communal agenda in Bihar and that the Nitish Kumar-Lalu Prasad Yadav combine would have a smooth run in the coming polls.
You have made several statements over the past few days ruling yourself out as a chief ministerial candidate in the coming Bihar assembly polls. Why?
I have always been in national politics from the time I began my career. I have been a follower of national leaders like Babasaheb Ambedkar, Jaiprakash Narayan, [Ram Manohar] Lohia, George Fernandes. They never harboured ambitions of going into state politics. By opting for a chief minister’s post, you confine yourself to a state. Look at Mulayum Singh Yadav or Mayawati – they can never shake off the tag of a state leader, or leaders of Uttar Pradesh. Today, I am the national leader of my party. Wherever I go, I draw huge crowds. Moreover, Dalits across the country look upon me as their leader. I would not like to be limited to a state given my standing at the national level.
The NDA is not planning to project a chief ministerial candidate. Won’t it work against your alliance? On the other hand, your rival group has a strong chief ministerial candidate in Nitish Kumar.
I don’t think it is correct to say that the NDA alliance will suffer if it does not project a chief ministerial candidate. Look at last year’s elections in Maharashtra and Haryana. The BJP did not project anybody and yet chalked up handsome victories in both states. As for Nitish Kumar, it is not correct to say he’s a strong candidate. If he was so sure and confident, why would he ask Kejriwal to campaign for him? Why would he tie-up with Lalu Prasad? Why would he agree to contest only 100 seats? In fact, his alliance is going to pay a heavy prices for aligning with Lalu. It would be a big feat if he manages to win even 25 seats.
Why is there a delay in seat sharing talks with the BJP?
Formal talks on seat sharing should begin in a week’s time. On an informal level, I have been in constant touch with BJP leaders and there should be no problem about seat distribution. Of course, there is always pressure from party cadres that tickets be distributed at the earliest. It does help if all the candidates are finalised well in time. It gives them time to plan their campaign.
The delay has sent out a message that all is not well between the BJP and its partners. On the other hand, it was expected that differences between Lalu Prasad Yadav and Nitish Kumar would bog down their seat sharing talks but, surprisingly, they have managed their affairs quite smoothly.
Nitish Kumar and Lalu Prasad Yadav were compelled to announce their seat sharing arrangement. Their supporters don’t see eye to eye. Lalu’s camp does not want an alliance with Nitish and the latter’s supporters are unhappy about the tie-up with Lalu. The confrontation between the two sides was manifesting itself in damaging statements from their supporters. Nitish and Lalu had to put an end to this sniping and so they quickly decided on their seat share. In the process, the Congress has emerged as a big gainer, having got 40 seats.
But this is not the end. The real fight will begin when they start identifying the seats each party is to contest. Every candidate will want to contest from a Muslim-dominated constituency.
Doesn’t this indicate that the Muslims are wary of the BJP and will put their trust in the Lalu-Nitish-Congress combine?
But it is also true that the Muslim-Yadav consolidation is not going to take place this time. The Muslim community is getting disillusioned with the grand alliance, especially Lalu. In the recent Legislative Council election, Lalu did not give a ticket to any Muslim candidate. How else do you explain the response which Asaddudin Owaisi [President of the All India Majlis-e-Ittehadul Muslimeen] is getting at his public rallies? He has been attacking the RJD, Janata Dal (United) and the Congress for letting down the minorities but there have been no protests from the Muslim community. On the contrary, his speeches are heard with rapt attention.
Similarly, there has been a steady erosion in Lalu’s Yadav vote. This was evident in the last Lok Sabha elections when Lalu’s wife Rabri Devi and daughter Misa were defeated. Moreover, what do the Yadavs have to gain by going with Lalu? He is not even a chief ministerial candidate.
There is a view that the BJP is pursuing a communal agenda in Bihar in the run-up to the forthcoming assembly elections as polarisation helps the BJP. The incidents of communal clashes have also gone up in recent months.
If you see the history of communal violence in Bihar you will see that most clashes take place between the Yadavs and the Muslims but today they are both on the same side. Why do you think Lalu never ordered a probe into the Bhagalpur riots?
So I don’t think there will be any communal tension, and if there is , it will only show that Lalu and Nitish don’t have control over these groups. The BJP’s agenda is development. The financial package for Bihar announced by the Prime Minister is evidence that vikas [development] is the key issue in these elections as far as the NDA is concerned. Why would the BJP pursue a communal agenda and shift the focus away from development? What will it hope to gain by polarising the electorate now when there is no anger among the Muslims against the BJP?
The Prime Minister may be focussing on development but the RSS and its affiliated organisations like the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bajrang Dal are spreading the venom of communalism on the ground. The BJP always benefits from a consolidation of the Hindu vote.
I do not agree with your assessment about the RSS and other organisations like the Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bajrang Dal. When you have a strong leader like Narendra Modi having a charismatic personality , everybody else becomes secondary. Modi is the only factor in the Bihar elections. He is like a paper weight.
The RSS has been reaching out to the minorities., Modi has done the same. it has been speaking about communal harmony. You must understand that once you come to power, you become Prime Minister, you have the responsibility of the entire nation. You cannot afford to ignore any group. You have to be inclusive. The People's Democratic Party-BJP government in Jammu and Kashmir is the biggest example of secularism.
There is a lot of talk about the Prime Minister’s domineering personality and that that ministers have been issued a series of dos and don’ts.
I have not faced any restrictions, nor have I been given any dos and don’ts. Our party is an ally in the NDA government and nobody has stopped me from raising any particular issue. I still talk about secularism, communal harmony, welfare of Dalits in my public meetings. There has been no change in my statements after I joined this government.
Remember when the "ghar wapsi" controversy surfaced, I openly said that we should be guided by the Constitutional provision on conversion. The BJP supported me and endorsed my stand.
Allies in the NDA government have been feeling sidelined. Many, including the Shiv Sena and Shiromani Akali Dal have complained about the BJP’s big brother attitude and it does not consult its partners.
Tension between the BJP and the Shiv Sena is simmering because the two parties contested the last assembly elections separately. The Akali Dal is running a government in Punjab, so naturally they will raise issues pertaining to their state.
All government decisions are taken after thorough discussions in the Cabinet. Everybody has the freedom to put forth his or her view point and all speak fearlessly. I have been given a free hand in running my ministry. We recently filed a lawsuit against Nestle but the Prime Minister never told me not to go ahead with it because it will scare away potential foreign investors. Certainly, we don’t want to create panic among investors but, at the same time, we also have to protect the consumer.
But there were differences on the Land Acquisition Bill.
All allies gave their views on the land bill. And don’t forget, it was the allies who ensured that the legislation was amended. As far as I am concerned, I think the amended land bill was a good legislation and should be retained. It would benefit Bihar in a big way. Today, people are forced to leave Bihar in search of employment because there are no jobs in the state. If the land bill had been passed, it would open the doors for setting up industries which would provide employment to the people of Bihar. They would no longer have to go to other states for work. But the bill was put on the back-burner after the opposition raised such a hue and cry about it.
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